Alexandra Hughes 0:12
Everyone and their cat is talking about witches. But what is a witch or medicine woman or priestess? How does one become one? And what is the common thread between women who identify as such magical creatures? Welcome to the witch hunt podcast, where we hold space for healing conversations that collectively explore these questions with the intention of celebrating of illuminating and elevating the rise of feminine energy magic and self sourced power. All in a world that's gone pretty much mental. Every new and full moon host is Aleksandra Beckel Hughes, who identifies as all three of these sacred tights, in her own weird way, invites you to brew some tea to light a candle, and to join her in her conversations with witches, medicine, women, priestesses, and other magical creatures from around the world. So come gather to share in the knowledge, experience, magic and sacred stories of those women, who, once hunted to be burned at the stake, are now hunted, to be held in the light, so that they so that we can illuminate the way.
Kiki Keskinen 1:30
It's so easy to take all of our wisdom and knowledge and go, we should be offering this to our children. But in fact, giving it to ourselves first. Our kids are watching. They'll learn from our example, I learned that education was important, because my mom took herself to university every summer. And so I wasn't without observing that detachment that had to also happen in order to make space for her own education and learning.
Alexandra Hughes 2:09
Welcome to Episode 53 and season 10 of the witch hunt podcast. When I review my podcast episodes to curate these introductions and my show notes, I am always on the lookout for great quotes. And with this episode, it was really hard because it just felt like a series of great quotes one after the other. Meet Kiki Keskin, an incredible woman, a teacher and mentor to me, who I'm lucky to say has also become a dear friend. Her life is one magical story after another. And in this episode, deep wisdom flows in so much abundance. Just to give you a bit of a taster. We explore the importance as witches to honour not only the lands we live on, but the peoples who have tended to these lands for millennia before our arrival. We also talk about the power of rewilding eclectic witchcraft, black magic, dark arts, the phases of feminism, Kiki shares her fascinating story that starts with her conception by a couple of Irish hippie witches in Montreal in 1967. Summer of Love her childhood summers on her banana seat bike free in the woods, and her early adult life as a witch agent revolutionary within corporate Canada, and of course, the birth of her baby which school Canada. Get ready to explore the intersection of feminism, Earth love and spirituality with one powerful Walker talk seventh generation which enjoy welcome Kiki Koskinen to the witch hunt podcast What an honour and delight it is to have you here this is going to be a memorable conversation. And you know, I always begin by inviting our guests introduce themselves but I would just like to say before I do that to our listeners how special Kiki is to me because when I joined which school Canada which is her baby, it really deepened my experience as a witch and to have her here to share her wisdom and her magic is just something I'm really excited to share with you.
Kiki Keskinen 4:38
Thank you so much.
Alexandra Hughes 4:39
You're so welcome. Kiki Please introduce yourself.
Kiki Keskinen 4:43
Well, I'm a seventh generation witch and my ancestors from Ireland. I'm here on Anishinabeg land the Algonquin peoples where they met often with the Cree on the Gatineau River, near Ottawa. or Odawa. And as a coloniser, occupier of this land, I can honestly say that I am attempting to steward it in the best way that I can and in partnership with the animals and the plants. Yeah. And I thank you for having me, Alex, it's such a pleasure to support the witch hunt podcast. It is been something I've listened to in the car, something I listened to when I'm making supper. It's been an incredible. And I know I speak for your listeners as well. It's been an incredible model for learning and absorbing. And you've had the most incredible guests, and I feel honoured to be one of them. Oh,
Alexandra Hughes 5:45
wow, I'm so excited to dive into your story, Kiki, which I know really well, but I can't wait to hear it again and to share it with people. So I'm curious to know. And I've heard this before, not only what which the word which means to you and what your experience of it is. But I'm also curious, could we also riff a bit about the word priestess and the difference maybe between witch and priestess? And even maybe between, like the three words that I use the most, and women have been on here, and they've identified as sorceresses, and many other words, right that they've chosen. But the three words that I tend to use the most are which priestess and medicine woman. So I'm curious, like, what's your take on the three? And what of them I know which one you most likely identify with? But can we dive into that one, a little bit deeper than the other two, but I just like to get a sense of how you see them relating to one another.
Kiki Keskinen 6:46
Yeah, and, you know, we all have a connection to a land base through our ancestry, wherever you're from. And if we don't know what that is, that's okay. We may have an intuition about it. And so, you know, it's a little bit like, when I think about religion, and I'm like, Oh, well, in Ireland, there's the Protestants and there's the Catholics, and or there's Muslim, and Jewish, and we have these differences. But there are so many similarities that we cannot ignore where there's incredible overlap, and beauty in that overlap. And so I self identify as a witch, because that's my ancestral lineage. And that's what my family line was labelled as, and yet they were midwives, death, doulas, healers, nurses. They were mystery women. But in every tradition, we have that some it's derogatory, and then persecuted, some it's lifted up and recognised. But really, there's so much incredible overlap. And so one of the pieces of work that I'm interested in is when I am invited to speak or sit or listen, with Indigenous Women of this turtle island, and I spend more time listening, of course, because I'm on their land, I am listening for the similarities, the magic that's in between the pauses, or the knots, or the energy that's emitting when we talk about women and men, and to spirited as creators. We're in the image of Gaia, always. And we can call Gaia many different names. So that's perhaps a way of interpreting my belief system is that all three words you're describing, to me have incredible similarities, they might just have some different ways of showing up and practising in the pragmatics. Yeah.
Alexandra Hughes 9:08
Isn't it interesting how the mind in this society goes to the differences first? Yeah,
Kiki Keskinen 9:16
tell me like, I'd like to maybe ask you a question. Like, what are the differences for you?
Alexandra Hughes 9:23
It's a question that I ask like, everybody that comes on the podcast, so it's hard for me to source it without the influence of the many, many wise women who I've spoken to about it. But I feel a little bit as though a which is a little bit of a non negotiable way of being, for example, for me, it's not that I decided one day I was a witch. It's that I realised that the things I was doing, intuitively But there was a word for it. And that word was to be a witch. And then the word priestess. I've heard it said that it's more of a vocation. So there's a, you could be a solo practitioner in which for instance, but to be a priestess, there's something about holding space for others being an, I guess, as a witch, you're an agent of Gaia, right? An extension and an agent. And I think that's also true as a priestess. But maybe as a priestess, there are very specific technologies, and methods and modalities that one would use to support the alchemy within a group. And so it's really, you know, like, I think about you in which school and you do that every time we gather, you know, you you step into what I've just defined as a priestess, you step into priestess mode. So it's kind of, but you'd ever use that word. So I wonder, again, there are the overlaps, and the similarities, and maybe it's just about words, and archetypes, and archetypes.
Kiki Keskinen 11:19
Like an archetype being the Latin word, arc, meaning the first and then tight me the original word is for story. So first stories that are imprinted on us. And so which shaman priestess, they're all a kind of archetype we take on and label and some of which we may feel like, Oh, this is my duty to be the next generation of healer in my family. And if your mum and grandma were exceptional, Sunday cooks, and they made a plentiful meal, and they put it on the table, and you held hands, or you said a prayer, you know, in a way that is a form of wisdom, bring the family together, come hell or high water, bring them together. That's a wisdom that your mom or grandmother had around closeness and togetherness, and we'll get through it. And if we had a little ritual every Sunday, where someone had made a toast, or someone said a opening meditation or poem or prayer, that is a ritual. And so that too, is a form of like, magic. And so all three, wield magic consciously and unconsciously. So when you say I see you Kiki, when you lead a circle or a class, and you step away from being kind of the the occupant of that work, and you hold this container of and facilitate, in a way I'm channelling like my grandmother, who hosted the Sunday meal, and made certain that everyone was there. And it's a little bit pushy, you know, that grandmother and mother that's like, you know, it's Sunday meal you come, you know, it's like, you wield that power. It's your food that you give us love. And so in a sense, like, we're constantly embarking on these archetype helixes you know that we're just, we're just moving through all the time, our first imprints of how we wield love and compassion in the world.
Alexandra Hughes 13:53
I love I love bringing our grandmother's into it and also bringing in the kitchen which aspect right like the kitchen, which aspect but it could just as easily be the garden which aspect or you know, there's so many ways of practising magic and by the way, you've just described my mother in law
Kiki Keskinen 14:20
too.
Alexandra Hughes 14:21
So tell us your story. Kiki, when what is your experience of being a witch? And when did you I'd like to hear even before you realised it I'd like to hear like starting from you running around in your rubber boots while didn't free in the forest, or even start at the very, very beginning.
Kiki Keskinen 14:43
Well, the seven bees was such an interesting time to be a child. Because you had for many of us who had privilege there was a style of parenting. That was like CO at sunset for dinner.
Alexandra Hughes 14:57
I love that.
Kiki Keskinen 15:02
So in a way, I've had moments of like, was I neglected, you know, and then on the other hand, I was like, actually, I was free. And then another side of me is like, but what if I got injured or like, nobody would know. And there was a certain confidence that parents had in the 70s, that their kids were going to be okay. They were going to survive, maybe because their parents went through war times. And they didn't know if they were going to make it or not. And so with fluidity in the 70s, came a kind of pleasure. And what about me feeling, and I'm going to occupy more space as an adult. So I think our parents at least minded, had a certain like, they'll be fine. And I was a product of that. And so my mom, I'm adopted, and so my mom and dad were in their late 30s, when they adopted me. I was the product of 1967. In Montreal. It was the summer of love. feminists were espousing their own sexuality. My birth mother was all of 18 years old and in love, but certainly not ready to be a mother. And abortion was not available. It might have been in the back rooms. It's airy. And so my birth mom who had come from British Columbia, for Expo 67, and the vibe in Montreal, and jazz, and just all the beautiful chaos that happened in big cities, she drove in a Volkswagen van across Canada with her best friend, knowing that she'd get a job as a secretary, make enough money to go to art college in Europe. And so my birth mom who grew up, partly homeschooled in a small town in northern British Columbia, where her mom was a nurse, and her dad was an engineer in mining towns. And so she couldn't tell her parents she was pregnant. So she remained in Montreal, and gave birth in Montreal and gave me up for adoption to a family that she thought I'd have a good life with. And I did. She was right. Her intuition was right on. And so my mum and dad adopted me. And then I was in the 70s. And I was dropped off in the country at a cottage with my Bubka, my grandmother, who's really like my Baba Yaga, if you know that particular mythology of the Baba Yaga. So it was me, and my Bubka. My Bobcat didn't speak a stick of English. And I was like six years old, five years old, seven years old, my mom, my adoptive mom, who recently passed away. She took herself to McGill. And she was working on her bachelor degree in the summers, while I was in her belief, safely at the cottage with her mother. And what I did was, I would get on my little banana seat bike, and I would trump out into the forest, I made a path. And I would develop relationships with the animals and the plants there. And I barely wore clothes because there was no one around. It was just me in the woods. And you I would make potions, and I would pick mushrooms and I knew enough to not eat them. I would start teaching myself through my intuition, almost like a feral child. And all I knew was that I had to be back for the meal. And the meal wafted with the most beautiful smells, because my Bubka was an incredible cook. And so I would join her for meals after having these kind of forest excursions with pine cones in my hair and dirt under my every part of me and she would feed me incredible food that she made in a woodstove and then she'd plunk me in a bath and then I go under the big do vase that she made herself with big feathers. And I'd start another day the next day and the next day and the next day and that's how I spent my childhood. Yeah. Really like if you've watched the read the book, The Jungle Book I was like, Mowgli. And I made connections with chipmunks. I named them like Snow White. Like, really, it was quite a life. I'm so grateful for that. You know, and I've gotten past the times of being bittersweet about it. But it formed my early understanding of what was inside of me without any teaching, or any tutoring. And so when I met my birth mother at 36 years old, having had my child and having a life, and I looked into her eyes, and she said to me, you know, you're a witch, and I'm a witch, your birth grandmother's a witch. And here's our story. It's like, all the puzzle pieces came together. And so acknowledging that I have a responsibility to adhere to that. It's almost like a code. And I need to pursue it, and keep growing it. And I can never, even though I have a witch school, and there's about 300 alumni, I can never forget my own practice, and my own desire to go to the forest by myself, and speak to the animals and touch the plants and be in the dirt, because that's who I am. That's my core as a witch. And from that place, I can teach, I can dispense love, and magic, and I can help others heal the planet. And that's through which school, let the,
Alexandra Hughes 21:40
you know, the image of you as a child with your banana seat bike and just wild in the woods and then coming back to your Bubka. So, coming back to her and her her do vase and her warm meals and their her bath, and then running free. You know, it's so interesting, Kiki, like I've been hearing on the radio a lot lately, the importance that's being placed on letting children rough play outside, right, that like the psychological importance of this, and how we have like this past decade and a few, you know, for the last, I guess, as his parents maybe have been much more sort of helicopter free, right, and how that hasn't been working for our children. And they're just figuring it out now. And I just think of this glorious childhood you had and how I wonder whether the goddess placed your Bobcat where you know, you chose to come and to, and your mother chose to do what she chose to do. But if part of this divine timing or planning was having your bobcat and Matt cottage there to give you that freedom and connection with nature that then allowed you to experience who you were, and
Kiki Keskinen 23:04
through the senses, not through words. And to me, that is a little bit lately, I've been studying Appalachian witches, and I'm so fascinated with what it is to be a bush witch, to live in the bush and to have very little means, and to acknowledge that your senses sometimes are the best, like guiding rod for what you must be doing. And I feel that my childhood gave me that guidance, where it was like I was gonna fill in my life with words eventually. And I ended up speaking with animals and plants mostly. And I did go back to Montreal, you know, in Toronto eventually, and live, you know, go to school and like live out the school year as a normal suburban kid. But my summers were this extraordinary wilding. So I do feel that there are incredible opportunities for those of us that maybe are growing tired of managing a household so tightly, are managing the care of our children's schooling so tightly and I'm trying to define a helicopter parent, but you know, when their health and their mental health and but that there is so much out there to fall in love with through the senses in nature, that give our kids a way to almost like have, you know, like some kind of rewilding, and in which school I feel like most of us are in the middle of our lives. We may or may not have kids or grandkids and just enrolling in with school is an act of rewilding. You know when I can feel it when there is some unravelling that happens when the homework involves finding a tree, that's yours, and the tree finds you. And there's a, an intimacy, a connection that's formed. This is us as adults in which school with homework around being with a tree. Imagine if that was sort of a piece of homework for our children. Like, I'm going to drop you off in a park, I'm gonna pick you up in two hours. And you know, you're not going to have your devices. And I trust you, I believe in you. And what would happen? We're not saying like, go do that. I'm just saying, let's imagine it. Is it like a vision quest, you know, where indigenous traditions inhabit the wild again, with no support, and they have to reclaim their senses. And maybe it feels a bit like survival. But, you know, you're being picked up in two days or two hours? What would happen, I know, we drop kids off at the mall, you know, or I know, we give them two hours of screen time. That's like dropping them off in the wild, too. So which school has been an opportunity to give ourselves permission to explore the wild again? Yeah,
Alexandra Hughes 26:35
it's so interesting. There's so many things I want to say, in response to everything, you've just said that, you know, I can't help but think how, when we tell our children what's safe, what isn't safe, which way to go, you know, what's right and what's wrong, and don't give them that space and time to access the wisdom within within a context that is natural to them. That is natural period. In a way we're taking away you said senses our best guiding rod, right, in a way we are implanting a truth inside of them and taking away that, that intuitive capacity. And I think a lot of the time messages like you should be happy or smile, or you know, they they do the same thing. They take that away from us, I and so there's just so much beauty in building that muscle up, and you had it built up every single summer. Right? Like, that's incredible. And I think children have had it in different ways and some more than others. And for me, I went to Montessori school till I was 12. And it was self guided education. And so I wasn't with the trees or with the animals or with the birds, though. I do remember our annual picnics at Vincent Massey Park were my favourite because we would just run around wild in the woods there. But but that capacity to be your own guide as a child, and then me and that person that drops you off and picks you up for me was the teacher who would be like, okay, you know, now, that's wonderful that you spent the day learning about maps and stuff, let's come over here and guided me here, and then left me to do what I needed to do in that section of the classroom, which might have been about biology or something. But there's something about honouring a child's wisdom that I think, is also very much part of indigenous cultures. Yeah.
Kiki Keskinen 28:53
And if I may, here, we are talking about children, which is classic women behaviour, right. But in fact, we're talking about ourselves, right. And so it's so easy to take all of our wisdom and knowledge and go, we should be offering this to our children. But in fact, giving it to ourselves first. Our kids are watching. They'll learn from our example. I learned that education was important, because my mom took herself to university every summer. And so I wasn't without observing that detachment that had to also happen in order to make space for her own education and learning. And so my adoptive mom, who passed away just a short while ago, taught me that as much as she wanted me she adopted me. She also took time and space for her own learning in herself. And to better her own mind, she was very smart, human. And I forever reflect on that as almost a feminist issue, all of our good learnings we apply to our kids, what if we turned it on ourselves and said, My inner wild child needs space and time. And I know your audience have, many of them have a solo practice. And I completely believe in having our own inherent magical practice, whatever that might be, where we're alone with ourselves, maybe we're in nature, maybe nature is in our head, maybe it's on a screen, but we're wilding within ourselves. And then when people enrol in with school, they can maintain that solo magical practice, and expand to include others that are also doing the same thing. And so this online world as much as it's not perfect, it does give those solo witches out there a chance to put a toe in and step into community and be in circle, and not have to feel like they joined a group in such a way that they can't extract themselves. It's like the best of both worlds. And so which will gives you that space where you're a solo individual who is self wilding, and practising your magical arts, and also having some guidance and direction and being in a wider cross continent, across Turtle Island community where we're all figuring it out together.
Alexandra Hughes 32:01
You're reminding me of the other thing that I was gonna say. And it was that how my experience having joined which school I mean, I think my soul, I think it's true for solo practice as well. It's really interesting, I've been noticing how I feel like a little girl, sometimes when I when I step into practice, but I feel like a little girl with her friends in the forest in a circle when I'm when I'm, you know, at a witch school, class or circle or ceremony. It's so interesting that it's that, you know, I think about the things that that we do together, you know, pull cards or dance or go into trance and visualisation and which is really what a child does when they start imagining and daydreaming. So, it is very much there's something very healing about doing that alone. And there's something incredibly healing about doing that in circle. And I just I want to ask you, because I really want our listeners to know one of my questions is How did you or what is your Embrace your inner witch story? Or how did you embrace your identity as a witch and I know that for you Something happened between you know, your your, your wild summers and meeting Sally, your your birth mom that supported the evolution of your experience and your identity as a witch? Can you share that with ads? Can you share that story that embracing your inner witch story? Well, like many
Kiki Keskinen 33:53
young people in the 80s and 90s, I went a little wild right, like politically, I'm was very radical. I really leaned hard left down with the patriarchy, I was very wild in my own way. I had finished university I had I got married, I had a child, but I maintained a degree of fierceness that I knew I was bound for I had the privilege, the opportunity to work within the patriarchy in which I could thankfully collect their salary that they gave me and also make change from within. So I chose to work in male dominated environments, knowing that I could take my skills and shape and change from within So I felt very strongly that I could be of best service to feminism by infiltrating and changing from within. And it's like being a political operative, like a secret agent, where you go in, like, had someone offered me a job, you know, with good pay and benefits to work at like a mining company, which was completely against my and is completely against my value system, I would have taken it because I could work in the trenches right on the frontline and make change from within, it may not be abolished the mining company, but I could build business cases, to convince and persuade leadership's from within the power centres. That change was valuable, profitable, and worthy. So I guess I was a radical in my own way that had a cost to me personally, I could hold it together every day to go into a shitty Corporation, and watch all of the workings of a pharmaceutical company or a bank, or a telecom company. And I could see how oppression was everywhere. It was intrinsic in the hierarchical system. And I felt alone, I was maybe one of very few women and management. And I felt like I was on mission. And I had work to do on behalf of the feminists, even in a small way. But where was I going to go back to the well, and re centre myself recommit to the divine feminine, that would give me the energy and source to go back into those places every day, and see what kind of compromise or change I could create. So in the 90s, feminism had an awakening along its spirituality. And I started paying attention to the feminist spirituality of the time, that was for me rooted in nature, almost like what will be defined now as animism. Where we see the we have a belief that in every sacred thing, there is a consciousness, a power and a magic. And I says humble humans only need to listen, in order to communicate. And listening is a very hard thing to do. It uses all of our senses. So I found myself interested after knowing that I had something inside of me, that felt a calling to fight for the underdogs, and speak for those that couldn't speak. And I had privilege and support systems around me. And I'm white, and I could I'm, I could do things. And so I thought, I can speak up. I can play them at their own game. I could fight fire with fire. But I needed a spirituality a source place that would replenish me with that feeling I had when I was a child where I was interconnected with nature. So I answered an ad. In a little magazine, like you go to your local mystic shop and you see a poster on the cork board and you go, that's the one. And so I did and there I was sitting on a living room floor every Wednesday, and I was surrounded by 1012 other women. We're all learning about goddess mythology, ancient archaeology, these statues that have been found. And what does that mean? And spirituality that is universal in its indigenous traditions, Earth air, fire, water is worshipped all over the world by indigenous people, and how important nature is, and especially in the 90s when I was coming to this belief, I knew it as a child, but I needed the political context for it as an adult So in my 20s, I sat on this living room floor, and I learned about witchcraft, not Wicca, that's a separate religion, but witchcraft, and interpreted from an eclectic point of view, like make it your own. And I think that's what a eclectic really means, make it your own. And so I continued after that class, to circle with those same women for 18 years, by monthly on the moons. And what that taught me by the way, they were about 1020 years older than me. I was like a little maiden amidst all of these mothers in Queens, and Crohn's. And they sort of took, they sort of took me under their wing and said, Okay, you're doing good work out there. But what kind of work are you doing inside of you? And they challenged me, and they worked with me. And I felt in a way groomed, you know, not knowingly, but I now see it, they were all about 1819 years older than me, for the most part, 1018 years, and, you know, became clear to me that there was something inside of me, that was coming out. And I started understanding what I was doing at work was, in fact, witchcraft. Even though my work seemed like, well, I'm part of the patriarchy, I was continuously trying to build empathy and healing in the workplace. And helping companies make better decisions, even if they were small.
But eventually, burnout took me, and that happens to so many of us in our 40s. And I thought, I'm gonna meet my birth mom, I need some answers. And my adoptive mom helped me meet my birth mom. And lo and behold, within six months, I met her on my birthday, on the seawall in Vancouver. Sure enough, she's 18 years older than me. And she says, You know, I want you to know something, and maybe you felt it, but you're a witch, your seventh generation, our people came from Ireland, and we come to Canada, and we occupied this land. And maybe our witch lineage should have sat with the Indigenous Grandmothers and mothers. And maybe we were complicitous. And we were also followers of a hierarchy of patriarchy, a churchianity. That brought us from Ireland because of famine, or death threats, or the climate. And so we came, our people came to this land from Ireland, and the women, in particular, the witches could have done better. And she says, now it's up to you. Well, I'm like, I had no idea. And yet, I've been practising witchcraft with these women who are exactly 18 years older than me. And I realise in the universe in the constellation of things that are meant to be, I'm here meeting my birth mother, 18 years older than me, who birthed me, a witch, and her mother, being a nurse, by the way, but a witch and her mother and her mother and her mother, seven generations back of healers, and teachers, all rooted and based in the forest, and the wild, and what kind of passion and compassion and friendship we and my ancestral lineage have had with nature, it lives out in me. And it's now my role to spread that further. And so I'm recreating with with school, that same experience of oral history, century after century after century.
Alexandra Hughes 43:58
So tell us tell us about what the experience is like when somebody enters which
Kiki Keskinen 44:05
school? Well, it's a school, you know, like a private school. And so, you know, take Hogwarts out of your mind. I'll tell you what it isn't. It isn't perfect. It's an opportunity that every student has to reconnect with their own ancestry. So that's part of the homework is understanding not just where your last two generations came from, but what your bones tell you. I love it when the thumb comes up. I never know why. But what are your bones tell you and where? Where is your intuition leading you? And so reconnecting with intuition and ancestry and nature are the primary ways in which the women in which school reconnect with their wild with their belief system with their magic with their hair? healing. So they enter which school in semester one. And they learn all about the Anthropology and History of witches. We have beautiful scholars that come in. It's like going back to college or university. There's PowerPoints. And there's very succinct Archaeology and Anthropology and documentaries that we revisit in there's homework. And so it does feel very linear and you're learning. That's the first six classes. And the homework is about an hour a week. And it's very personal. And you write your reflections, and you come to class with your homework completed. But it is for those types of learners that thrive in that kind of bookish style learning. And then it really cultivates a curiosity because we don't have all the answers to where witchcraft came from. We can go back to Neolithic Palaeolithic times, ancient Sumur, we can look at ancient societies and how they nomadically travelled around the world. And how curious it is that the artwork is this or that about our bodies, and about bleeding and childbirth, and cycles of the moon and the tides. But we don't have the answers. And so we're piecing together the answers in those first six classes. And then the second six classes is all hands on learning. So kinesthetic learning, it's a different teacher. Every class we learn beginner level Taro, an introduction to drumming for ritual, sacred circle dancing, shape shifting, and we study Lilith, there's divination and mediumship shielding, as well as conflict resolution and sacred space. Because when women come together and circle, we can be retriggered by patriarchal ways that we adopted ourselves, or sister wounds that we might have that we carry around. And we unpack that and find tools and techniques in which to recenter ourselves so that we're not following the old ways of conflict. And we're managing microaggressions. And we're looking at the circle as a collaborative tool, a creative tool, but not the answer to all of our problems. And then we move into semester three. And semester three is all about your personal leadership. And what does that look like for you, and so you develop a spell for yourself, each individual has a spell. And throughout semester three, we meet once a month, and you're coached. So the model of teaching and semester three over five months, is coaching. And so you're personally responsible to manifest your own spell, we assign a crone to you. And we offer a rite of passage so that you can solidify that spell in your life and in your body. And then while we meet once a month, we hold you accountable to determine what it is that you're moving, doing the work and making motion towards manifesting that spell, and we celebrate it. And we also give encouragement if you fall down. And so we help one another in a supportive network, by building this empowerment model, at the end of which school that culminates in a group project where you let the sneakers hit the road. And you put together a public ritual online, that shows you that you can work in a team collaborating and creatively to offer a Earth holiday ceremony like the Fall Equinox, or the spring equinox that just completed for your listeners. So you hold and host and facilitate together and that allows you to practice all these skills that you've just learned in which school and put them to use instead of resorting back to like, oh, no, we've got to put an event together. It's not about that. It's about practising what it is to be encircled together. And to release and let nature take its course, as alumni after the course is over. Then you have all these wonderful affinity groups that form there's a taro group, there's a kitchen witching group, sex magic group, all kinds of groups that now meet across the continent to do special things together. And I love that there's about 300 Alumni Now, and they meet without me it's not a part of the school it's they now meet in person and separately, and online like this. and just have support for their own witch practice. So I delight that there's witches across North America right now from witch school that have some common language, have a shared experience, and are feeling the collective whole of wilding out together. So that's a long way to describe with school. I hope that is your experience Alex, as a student, and soon to be alumni.
Alexandra Hughes 50:33
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's been an amazing experience. I think for me, there are three things that I can that come to mind right now. And one is the, you know, going really from, I mean, not entirely solo in that I have online circles that I'm a part of, but I joined which school Canada and then I, I joined our cohort. So that became part of my community. But then I also came to meet local alumni, who became a very important part of my life. You know, I now I go to witch choir every Sunday. And like it, this is in addition to our Wednesday night classes, and now I go to community outreach, where I host ceremonies, it's just expanded my experience in that kind of social collective way. But there's also been a great deepening the tree exercise, like, I just want to say to our listeners, if you're not in love with the tree, go find a tree and fall in love with her. Or she you are and listen for her to call you. It's the most beautiful experience, I'm actually missing her because I'm a bit of a winter weenie, and I never get out in the winter time I send her like energetic vibes. But before, before the dark, dark days, I did go and take her crystal and sing her a song and tell her you you're fine is of course she knows she's perfectly fine. She's done this 100 times before, and told her that I'm a winter we need but then I would be back more often later. But yeah, I think that that deepened connection with nature that is just woven all the way through. And now the leadership component, which I'm just entering into, you know, Kiki, I have done so many online programmes and courses, and it's so interesting how they've all been quite linear in nature. And you did describe the first, you know, set of classes is linear in terms of learning, but we are constantly circling back around where it's, it's it, we're constantly circling back around. And it's everything is related to everything else and builds on everything else. And it is about the external and the internal. And it's just such a beautiful reflection of the sophisticated ecosystem that live outside and inside of us. And I'm not sure quite how you've managed to put this magical thing together that mirrors that sophistication.
Kiki Keskinen 53:35
All you get the spiral that is the which school icon was hand drawn. And I know it's like now an icon out in the world. But I have to say that it is so reflective of the style of school that we wanted to offer, that we're constantly stirring the pot, and managing the relearning and the relearning in different ways. And it was meant to be a conscious and unconscious almost dreamscape in which some is going to stick some is you're going to let go, but that you're going to revisit it in different ways over and over again. And I don't know about you, but I don't learn the same way I once did. I need like five different ways of learning something before it sticks. I wouldn't say I'm a fast learner. I'm a slow learner. And so which school in a sense was designed to be a starting point and an introduction? And I think for those listeners that are at home and they're maybe they've started to play with an altar, you know, or they're, you know, on which talk or they're scrolling reels and there, they just can't stop being fascinated with things all which I would just say like stop that and now find A circle, like what Alex has created with her 13 moons congratulations, amazing leadership initiative, and find a group and audit that group, try it out. But get away from reels and scrolling your practice. And commit to being in your practice fully, not being influenced by what you only see. But try on using all your senses, to feel and to use your intuition. Is this right for me? And I think then, you know, okay, I'm curious, I'm, I'm on YouTube all the time I'm on which talk I listened to podcast nonstop. And which Hunt is a particularly wonderful podcast, because it does give you an audit. But then put it down and go find a circle. Go find a course, a full moon, a dark moon, find something ending and engage in it. be wild. Try it on, show your kids and your grandkids that they can to?
Alexandra Hughes 56:25
Yeah, I let you know, it's so interesting. It brings us and this kind of is a recurring theme in this conversation. You know, don't do what I say do what I do, right? Like the role modelling piece. To change the generations to come we need to begin here and my hands listeners is on is on my heart. I have two questions for you, Kiki, and then we'll wrap it up. So I'm curious to know what makes a witch a witch? And then I'm curious to know. And I know that your answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask you anyway, how you define magic? And what is your unique magic? Beautiful Kiki,
Kiki Keskinen 57:08
thank you. Okay, so my unique magic changes all the time. And I have taken all of those buzzfeed quizzes, and even Cosmo and Vogue. And, you know, what kind of witch Are you? Well, it depends. Like, I need to pull up my toolbox, my which kit and I decide what kind of which I am based on how I'm needed. And that's what kind of which I am I'm in service. I spend a lot of time listening with all of my senses. And I have the privilege and the requirement to deploy services into the world that help heal the climate, manage the pain from patriarchy, and churchianity. And support next generations to come. And so I think that that's kind of my calling. And, and maybe right now it looks like which school and other times, it has been a tarot reader. You know, at other times, it has been someone that facilitates and organises six magic workshops, or time in the woods. But I go where I'm needed, you know, Call the midwife, call the witch, I go where I'm needed. I'm in service. So that's not so unlike my mother, my birth mother, my grandmother, call where you are served to call and be in service. And it doesn't mean like reciprocity, like what am I gonna get in return? It means give as if it's a maternal gift economy. You give like you want your children to thrive. So you give them this and buy them that. That's how we offer our which service, give them this and hope they thrive. Watch them thrive. Give me another question that you want me to answer.
Alexandra Hughes 59:18
So another one of the questions was how do you define magic? Yeah,
Kiki Keskinen 59:22
I mean, to wield power in such a way that it is for good, but not without acknowledgement of the shadow. Because the dark and the light of witchcraft are equally important. People asked me Are you involved in black magic? I want to clarify what that is. Black Magic many definitions, but I interpreted as the hard parts of working in service are sometimes really dark and you have to Walk into rooms and say hard things to other people and to yourself, you have to clarify where those doubts come from. You have to manage your own shadows of envy, and jealousy, and envy and jealousy is systematically placed into women's lives. It serves no purpose whatsoever, and is a waste of time. So what is the alternative? Well, first, you have to face the darkness of that, call it out. Banish it and start again. And so that's black magic, when you have to call it out, banish it sorted out, sift it, send it away. And then you make room like nature makes room for new seeds, new growth, new change, we're in springtime right now. So the seeds are starting to get lucky. But not without a whole lot of darkness of winter first. So magic has that to it. And magic for me is consciously and unconsciously wielding power. I
Alexandra Hughes 1:01:15
love that you speak to black magic or something that was a journalist asked me dark the dark arts When did you become interested in the dark arts? And it's such a it's so easily misinterpreted?
Kiki Keskinen 1:01:30
Yeah, I mean, as, as women, all we have to do is ask ourselves this one question. If we're wondering, I don't have any dark arts. Okay, which is? How often in a day, do you feel jealous? Or envious? And do we even know what that feels like? And so now step into that, where did it come from? Why does it exist? And from there, we can learn a lot.
Alexandra Hughes 1:01:57
Yeah, I think another one is guilt. Yes,
Kiki Keskinen 1:02:01
guilt.
Alexandra Hughes 1:02:03
Yeah, your money.
Kiki Keskinen 1:02:07
There's systemic, and really, our bodies tell us, we're part of nature. We bleed and don't die. We give birth, like a pod, we hold life for an entity to come through us. I mean, we're more like milkweed, than we are like, anything, you know, we're more alike to animals and plants than we are to an inanimate object. And so do we identify that way? Probably not. And what happens when we start? Well, the ancient peoples did, they looked at women's bodies and bodies in general to spirit as well, and said, Oh, my gosh, you are holy. You are sacred on this planet. You are like the animals and the trees and the plants around us. You are identical. And so how do we revere that? And so for all the men listeners out there, or those that identify as men, you two are holy. You two have incredible, amazing bodies that also should be revered and seen as magical. Let's stop painting. The masculine as being the oppressors. But to continue to work hard to be in a circle together with nature.
Alexandra Hughes 1:03:44
A whole whole within ourselves. Yes,
Kiki Keskinen 1:03:47
yes. All of it.
Alexandra Hughes 1:03:51
Yeah. Thank you, Kiki for coming on today and sharing your wisdom and your story and talking about this beautiful, beautiful, I don't even know well school, but it's much more than that, that you have manifested and are sharing and is changing lives and so grateful to have you here today. It
Kiki Keskinen 1:04:14
is such a pleasure to watch you Alex bloom and glow and have all these sacred offerings in the world. I feel so lucky to be around you. This is my greatest joy, for which school is to see leader authors in the divine feminine, grow and offer their service. So thank you.
Alexandra Hughes 1:04:40
Thank you. Thank you beautiful for listening to the witch hunt podcast. We appreciate your presence and are so honoured that you're here. If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a review, subscribe and share it with your friends. One great way to share is by taking a screenshot Have the podcast on your phone and posting it on your Instagram story. Please tag us at the witch hunt podcast so that we can help share to spreading the word like this will help us to find more witches and to wake more witches. Now you know what it's time to do. Dance it out to the groovy tunes of bass that annual, which means I miss you in Spanish. It's by gamma skies. Till next time
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
