Alexandra Hughes 0:12
Everyone and their cat is talking about witches. But what is a witch or medicine woman or priestess? How does one become one? And what is the common thread between women who identify as such magical creatures? Welcome to the witch hunt podcast, where we hold space for healing conversations that collectively explore these questions with the intention of celebrating of illuminating and elevating the rise of feminine energy magic and self sourced power. All in a world that's gone pretty much mental. Every new and full moon host is Aleksandra Beckel Hughes, who identifies as all three of these sacred tights, in her own weird way, invites you to brew some tea to light a candle and to join her in her conversations with witches, medicine, women, priestesses, and other magical creatures from around the world. So come gather to share in the knowledge, experience, magic and sacred stories of those women, who once hunted to be burned at the stake, are now hunted, to be held in the light so that they so that we can illuminate the way.
Danielle Cohen 1:28
I think again, that in some ways, this ongoing, orienting towards a reclamation of sorts, right women and of course, different identities, different bodies, different geographies have different experiences, but women have been silenced, diminished, made invisible or less visible, or told the ways they can be visible for so long. And these paths, the Witch path, the wild woman path, the wise woman path, all of these, in some ways are an overturning of that. And a reclamation, right in a requirement of AI exists in my fullness.
Alexandra Hughes 2:11
Hello, and welcome to episode 46 of the witch hunt podcast unveiling witchy truth bombs in a commodified world with truth teller, visibility and money which Danielle Cohen. In this episode, Danielle, and I dive deep into what it really means to be a witch. In today's world, we explore the delicate dance of speaking our truth and staying aligned to our values of walking gently on the earth in a world that's managed to commodify just about everything, magic included. We talk about weaving magic and wisdom into our visibility and money healing journeys, and the role that nervous system healing plays there. When I went back to listen to this episode in search of scroll, stopping quotes, it felt as though the entire conversation was one amazing, quote, get ready for some gentle wisdom based truth telling in this incredibly thought provoking and heart opening conversation with Danielle. Enjoy. Hi, Danielle. Welcome to the witch hunt Podcast. I'm so excited to have you here.
Danielle Cohen 3:23
I'm so happy to be here.
Alexandra Hughes 3:25
Yeah, it's really going to be such a great conversation. And just to our listeners, I met Danielle through one of her programs, good money, which she runs with Kelly deals, and highly recommended it really gave me so much clarity. But it's so funny, Danielle, because when I saw you, you know through zoom on the other side of the screen, and like I think she might be a candidate for my podcast. It's just an inkling. Would you please give us the honor of your introduction?
Danielle Cohen 3:56
Sure. Oh, and in an open unplanned intro, I guess I'll say this. I am, Danielle. I am. The thing I've been longer than anything else besides myself is a mother. I turned 50 this year and my oldest is 27 will be 28. And about a little over a month. And my youngest is 13. And I have two others in their 20s. So that is certainly one of the most shaping and significant aspects of my identity in my life. I am a visibility coach and or guide mentor all of these strange words that we try to put together to make enough sense that somebody leans in and says, Tell me more. And that has a lot of range to it and terms of what it means then how it looks. Really the way I see it as I do and have for a very long time worked with forces of good imperfect humans that are here to do the work that they're here to do. And that requires a whole lot of courage. Oftentimes, you know, there's things we need to look at things we need to heal things, we need to transform things we need to just be able to be with and be about and also strategy, right? We need. And we need support in these ways. And I love to kind of doula or midwife in that way with people and their visions, mostly, I mean, I don't know if mostly actually, if I'm really honest, I love the process, I love it. And also, I find deep meaning in the fact that I really believe that everyone I work with is moving the needle in a direction of cultural, interpersonal, collective change and care that we all so desperately need. So yeah, so that makes it really meaningful. I'm also a photographer. And that work is oftentimes a physical or material manifestation of the other work in a different form, I find that there's a golden thread, it doesn't really matter, I can look back on the different ways I've worked over the decades, and there certainly is variety, and range. And there's also these breads throughout. And I love helping folks to find that for themselves as well, because I think so many of us can feel like where am I going? Where have I been? Do I even make any sense? And they all make so much sense to me from when I'm when you know, we need that mirror someone to that can see when we can't see the forest and the trees?
Alexandra Hughes 6:33
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it also sounds like how you like, like, you're multi passionate, but that your mission is one so that you have different ways of what I'm hearing you say is that you have different little bits of magic and gifts that you offer, but all towards this visibility. Healing.
Danielle Cohen 6:58
Yeah, I would say that, yes, I am a maybe a specialized generalist. I like to have I like to go deep. And I like to have a broad set of ways to be about those depths.
Alexandra Hughes 7:14
We actually have a lot in common, I only have three kids, but I turned 50 This year, and my youngest is 13. we're grappling probably with similar issues at the moment. Yeah, could be. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you, you know, you got this invitation from this random person in one of your groups, like, will you be on my podcast? It's called Rich? Can I just ask you, Danielle, what made you say yes to that? And how do you identify yourself as any of the words that I kind of allude to in in witch hunt. So witch hunt really is about illuminating the lives and the stories and the magic of magical women. And it's a large, open, inclusive category. Some women have come on and refer to themselves as sorceresses. Others is medicine, women. So what word resonates with you? And what made you say yes?
Danielle Cohen 8:15
Well, I think that what made me say yes, and it what I'll be honest, I didn't spend a ton of time in deliberation. And sometimes I will pause. There's always some pause. But sometimes, you know, is this a fit? What's this about? Yours came in. And what I felt was, oh, this is someone. What if you what a beautiful play, we can even say it like this. I don't know if this is your intention. But what I felt was you're using the word witch words, witch hunt, as a way to reverse the spell, as a calling in, right as a calling in of, I don't know, I felt it felt like a heart longing from you. Like you want to know who the other who can answer this call with you who can circle with you is just how it sort of implicitly felt. And that's enough for me to say, Sure, let's have a conversation.
Alexandra Hughes 9:08
Thank you so much for saying that. I don't know if you've listened to the recent BBC podcast called Which Have you been it's just come out. I'll share you I'll share the link with you but to our listeners highly recommended. And the the they go into so much depth, I really need to look up the presenters name because it wouldn't be fair for me not to, for me to mention the podcast and not to mention her. But of course, it's not coming up for me as I scan madly through my phone. I'll do it. I'll put it in the show. Just put it in the show notes. But it goes into such profound study of the witch hunts and what it is to be a witch and I was worried that I had used the words out Actually, it wasn't really a choice. They were a download, it was a message like you will have a podcast, it will be called Witch Hunt. So that's how it came to me. But I was quite worried after listening to the podcast that maybe I was using these words a little bit too lightly. So for it to have been interpreted by you, as like, a benevolent calling in and circling and kind of, you know, I had hoped to take read take ownership of those words again, take them back. Yeah.
Danielle Cohen 10:27
Yeah. I mean, I hear you that there that it was a download, but some part of you use discernment, I'm sure. In saying yes or no. Right. So there is a way in which you partnered with that download and brought it into form? Yeah.
Alexandra Hughes 10:41
But also, it's, you know, it's I'm calling my podcast a genocide.
Danielle Cohen 10:48
Yeah. So that might be something that you talk about playing? And yeah, maybe that's something that you bring more words to, or maybe that is something maybe that was, you know, sometimes we have a download. Sometimes we have the download, and then we sit in discernment and decide, like, you know, not everything that downloads is necessarily right, timed, or aligned, or where is it downloading from, you know, all of those things are worthwhile to consider. And also, sometimes something comes in, and it's the impetus for a beginning. But it's not necessarily this the thing that stays, or it gets us started, and then we discover other layers, and we fold those in. I don't know what your journey with it is. That's how I heard it. But I hear you also in saying that it is it was a hunting of women. Yeah. Yeah. And that isn't light. No,
Alexandra Hughes 11:47
it isn't like, and it's actually really interesting. Thanks for diving so deep with me so quickly. Really interesting how the human mind can do that, you know, we can, even though literally it means one thing we can feel something else coming from it. And of course, time has passed. But let me I digress. Let me ask you. You said yes. Because you felt a calling. And which, if you know, if you were to, again, like the words, priestess, healer, what resonates? What calls to you and why and what's your story with that? Or those words?
Danielle Cohen 12:26
So I Yes, I definitely felt it as I felt the ask is an invitation a warm invitation. So that's that, in terms of which words I do or don't identify with, to some degree. And I have a feeling that six months from now, I may have a different answer. I'm very much and have been at the threshold of menopause for 10 years, maybe even 12. I know, they they say it's but really I started having significant shifts happening at about 38. And I'm 50 and I'm still not and and that is all there are ways in which those things are related. Those identity pieces are related. So I can speak for right now. And there's ways in which all of those words have aspects or resonate, that I identify with that certainly are the folks that I am in circle with that I'm an ecosystem with. And that's been true, probably since at least I was 10 if not earlier, and there's no one of them that I you know, I can think of some of my friends, some of my colleagues were very clear like I am a witch or I am a priestess or IMS like that is very clear. I feel a little less set in the language and maybe in some ways, in a non self diminishing way, me may be a little less entitled. In other words, I am in many ways a spiritualist I have done some trainings, going back decades in terms of holding ceremony, being in prayer with people who are in suffering or illness like this, it's not a nothing road for me, meaning I have done the work there. And yet I also haven't devoted my entire it hasn't been like the thing that I've devoted my vocational path and I can say that about a few different things you know, I'm definitely would fall under the category of a Greenwich except for again, while I've been steadily studying and working with plants and herbs to in one way or another since I was 10 that was my first doorway in. In it isn't, you know, I'm not Rosemary gladstar I'm not someone who has right like devoted all the things so there there is a way in which these things care a certain weight. And also it hasn't been important for me to name it in a particular way. It hasn't been something that is felt like I need to name this for one reason or another. And so I don't have a quick like, Yeah, this is the thing. Yeah.
Alexandra Hughes 15:17
Does it feel peripheral to your identity as a human on the planet here? Or does it feel a little bit more integrated? Or Central? Or
Danielle Cohen 15:29
it feels weaved into the fabric of my being? And of everything? I do? Yeah, it doesn't feel peripheral. It feels more. Yeah, I don't think that there's very few of any places where that whatever that isn't present. I
Alexandra Hughes 15:46
want to know what that is. Is that like, is that being a magical woman? Is that being a healer? Because in a way, you know, I don't see. I mean, I shouldn't say I don't see much difference. There is, of course, distinction and speciality in in being a Greenwich, for instance. And I would say in being a visibility wound healer, that's its own, you know, tools and expertise. But But in some way they are, I see them very much interconnected, in that they're both, I think, right,
Danielle Cohen 16:22
I think that is one of the reasons not all of the reasons, but I think that's probably one of the reasons why the word which has become not a catch all in a bad way. But something that so many are identifying with, because I think, is a specific enough and large enough umbrella, that it can hold those variances and specialties in a container that speaks to the power and magic and that newness that we're referring to. Yeah, when I, in high school, I had a group of friends and they were practicing Wiccans. And that's a very specific practice, right? That while I was around a lot, and exposed to and, you know, I don't even know how much I could say I tried it on it wasn't. There are elements that have informed and shaped me, I am somebody who has been, I mean, we all are, we all have teachers of different sizes and shapes that come along. And I've had a fair amount of them, particularly in the realms of spiritual paths and healer, forms, starting young, and throughout, and I didn't, I didn't become Wiccan. And for a long time, I think that when we heard which we either thought we collectively been maybe I shouldn't say that maybe I'll just speak for myself, I think for myself, for a long time, if I heard which I either thought of my Wiccan friends, or I thought of, you know, I thought somebody was referring to a character of sorts. So that was there for a long time. So it didn't occur to me to identify as which in that way, for a long time, I think that we, I think that's abroad. And for many of us, over the decades. Yes.
Alexandra Hughes 18:21
And I love what you said about how it's become trendy, let's just say, and how it's become trendy, because it is this overarching umbrella term, and also very specific, but I take issue with the labeling are the taking on of the term, here's my thing with the word witch, as I kind of deepen in my relationship with it, is that I believe that to be a witch, witch in my mind, and I ask everybody, like, what's your definition of it on the show. So I know that there are like, everybody has their own definition. But for me, it really is rooted in the sacred feminine and understanding of that, and also an earth based, which in my mind, you can separate the two but I just present the two separately for the rest of the world. And so because I don't see because I don't see the toxic capitalist system in which we live that is perpetuating this trend by selling people China made cauldrons and crystals and T shirts that aren't fair trade or made of organic, like they just don't take into consideration the regenerative system that which is live by or I don't know like, maybe it's not fair for me to be safe to be casting judgment like that. And I think there is great value in kind of enticing people in maybe with these plastic toys. But like to be, which is more than that. This is a conversation that I'm having with a dear friend called Karen can askin and she is founder of which school Canada and you know, like to be, which is really something a little bit deeper. So I feel like yes, it's true that it is very attractive and easy to hop on this sort of trendy train which train. But at the same time, I feel like, well, actually it takes a little bit more. And this has been since I've listened to this podcast that I mentioned to you the which BBC podcast, I really feeling that one thing that all witches have in common is their practice for cyclical living. For me, the piece of social conditioning that kept me from hearing my intuition for decades, was my addiction to busy doing. And I'll be honest, slowing down and resting, honoring my very own winter, when my body calls for it is still and will probably forever be a growth edge. This is why I created the cycle, your guide to cyclical living, it's a super simple framework and practical tool that will help you harness nature's ancient wisdom in your modern everyday life. It's a free download that includes a cycle poster print, a description of the cycles, four phases, and some practical startup Tips For those new to cyclical living. You can check it all out at Alexandra hughes.com/the cycle. So let me ask you, do you does that resonate for you the ecofeminist kind of
Danielle Cohen 21:33
mean, when I think of what a witch means to me, by my own definition, I tend to think and when I say this, then yes, this I identify with, I think of those of us who are on a path that is in devotion to our wisdom, our you know, it's a becoming of our wise, self, right. And that why self, of course, is not singular, and is deeply connected to all of the beings. So I also identify, it's funny, I say, I think I have a little bit of a, I don't know that I identify it again, it feels like this is who I am. So I suppose that's identify as an animist, and, or at least someone who is in deep relationship or strives to be in deep relationship, all these words and all these things to me, they have weighed, so sometimes, you know, and our words have weight, I want to speak truth as best as I can. Right? And so I don't want to sit here and tell you like, I'm an animist, and I'm in deep relationship with everything in my life. I Are we allowed to swear here? Yeah. I all the time, right? Like, yeah, I'm, I breathe the same air and swim in the same water as the rest of us. And I get caught in the plastic toys, right? Or maybe not specifically, the which plastic toys so much, but I in my own way, right? I don't tread lightly on the earth, the way that I want to all the time, I don't create the repair that I want to all the time, but it is very much a part of my devotion and practice, and ongoing work. And to me, that is part of the magic, part of the magical work. And when I see the commodification of witch and things being sold in boxes, I mean, there's a few things that happen one is particularly when I see the plants and the stones and the other Earth beings that are being extracted from and I even look at myself and I think about how many crystals I've bought since I was 15 You know, and even if I bought them from someone beautiful, right? Like how much of that is too much? And what about digging those back into the earth what about you know, re covering some of what even I have taken and that too is part to me of magical practice much more so than going to Urban Outfitters and buying like, you know, some spell kit or sage like when I see it in, you know, in the boxes like it just makes me it makes me sad. It makes me ache. And sometimes it makes me angry. And I understand why so many are drawn to it. Right I understand the longing. I think this can also speak to colonization and how empty we have been. We it's not everybody but those of us who have had our culture whitewashed away, taken away stolen. Shut down what all of these things right? The longing doesn't go away your soul wants to be soulful And so that longing is there. And then, you know, capitalism in the form that it's in comes along and takes advantage of that longing as another pain point and presses on the fuck on it right and gives you this $15 Shiny toy and says, and be soulful with me. Yeah,
Alexandra Hughes 25:18
yeah, you're enough for the next five seconds until the longing comes back.
Danielle Cohen 25:24
I think there's a couple of things in that, right, there's the dopamine hit of the purchasing, which that doesn't really even matter what you're purchasing most of the time. And then there is the empty promise of this thing is the thing that's going to make you feel the magic, you're longing. But any practicing witch of whatever kind of practice knows, that actually happens out of relationship and devotion, and doing things oftentimes without feeling the hit of magic, the hit of it, but still doing the practice anyway. And someone I remember described it to me once. And it was really helpful for me at that time, because the feeling of something being wrong, because I wasn't often enough feeling feeling the divine. Right? And so what how do I change my practice, so I can feel that more? What am I doing, you know, all this kind of stuff. And I remember she said to me, you know, it's actually not like that, right? And I'm paraphrasing, but it was, we're living our lives, we're having our very human flawed experience. And we touch on the divine, now and then. And it really helped me to flip my understanding of like, Oh, right. So so we touch it, and then we savor it. And then we try and weave it in. And we know that we may or may not feel it, like sometimes we might be whatever the practices, the candle, the how we work with food, whatever the thing, we were our thing, or things are some days, you might feel immersed in the magical experience and other days, you just do it, knowing that it still matters. Yeah,
Alexandra Hughes 27:10
yeah. And I wonder sometimes also, if you know, you, you kind of made a nice little circle there. And you because you started off saying that you don't pretend, you know, to tread on the earth as lightly as you would like, or kind of live kind of the Isn't it interesting how we seek perfectionism even in being a witch. Right, just, but I wonder if it's that mess, right of like being a 3d three dimensional material, skin and bones human, and trying to do the right thing. And then that dance of kind of touching the divine or the divine touching us. And I think it is the dopamine that even kind of draws me into want more of that divine connection.
Danielle Cohen 28:03
You know,
Alexandra Hughes 28:04
I want another dopamine hit. But let me ask you,
Danielle Cohen 28:07
how do you get also co regulation? Right, we talk I just want to interject?
Alexandra Hughes 28:11
No, tell me more. I want to hear
Danielle Cohen 28:13
I think that there is a way in which right like we are, we're so wanting the regulation that happens when we are met, when we are met when we're seen when we're held when we're mirrored. And we do get that we can get that through our magical practices or through our connection to the divine. And we need that.
Alexandra Hughes 28:37
Absolutely, we need that I feel and you know, having been in good money with you that the component that is about regulation is so key. For me, like the trauma that is either epigenetic or from this lifetime, or from past lifetimes, often gets in the way of that divine connection and learning how to work with the body in order to regulate myself and kind of titrate my way through that trauma just opens me up just a little bit more each and every time. I actually I would love to hear your take on like I said these questions or guideline questions. Were totally I'd love to hear your take because I know that you work a lot on regulating the nervous system with at least with the women in our program, but I'd love to hear your take on maybe let's just use the word witch you know, like on what it is to be a witch or a spiritual woman in today's world, magical woman in today's world and our nervous systems and trauma and Cymatics and all of that is there. Is there a narrative or a story that you that makes sense to you around that?
Danielle Cohen 30:04
Well, there's another piece also that's coming up that I would just want to share for whoever it may feel resonant with. But I think, you know, we went through Clarissa Pinkola. Estes gave us women who run with wolves in 9093, somewhere around there, maybe I'm wrong, I feel like it was around there. Right. And so there is that. That was the invitation for the wild woman, right, the invitation for the wild. And I think, again, that in some ways, this ongoing, orienting towards a reclamation of sorts, right, women and of course, different identities, different bodies, different geographies have different experiences, but women have been silenced, diminished, made invisible or less visible, or told the ways they can be visible for so long. And these paths, the Witch path, the wild woman path, the wise woman path, all of these, in some ways are an overturning of that, and a reclamation, right, and a requirement of I exist in my fullness. And then you know, there is oftentimes in that reaching out for the others because I don't know you don't see, yeah, there's a way in which we're just also deeply connected. So and the word regulations is switching to that for a moment. And it's not really switching because it is also connected. But the word regulation sometimes makes me Prickly, because it feels a little policing. Like to me like I'm going to regulate myself feels like oh, boy, can that quickly dip into one more way that we try to control our bodies, our emotions, our thoughts, and I'm not really a fan of that. And I say that delicately because I also am someone who has struggled and knows a version of dysautonomia that is incredibly scary, uncomfortable. And that's basically you know, a nervous system that is due to illness or certain traumas is having a misfiring response to a current situation, or is just not able to, you know, it dips into like a fast heart rate or a low heart rate when it when that isn't the appropriate response, as an example,
Alexandra Hughes 32:39
based on a past experience can be it can be a traumatic
Danielle Cohen 32:43
experience. It can be like lots of folks with lung COVID, for example, struggle with dysautonomia, right, this is where you'll end up with things like pots happening, where, you know, high blood pressure changes and things like this. Lots and lots of people are managing, they're working towards regulating their nervous system in a much more, they have a lot more regular function, but they're just noticing that they lose their shit makes things that to them off or that things that some and certainly for those of us in menopausal years, not everybody, some people skate through like it's nothing. But ones of the women that I work with, that are in menopausal years, or humans that I work with that are in menopausal years, find that their nervous system is it's an interesting pain, sometimes painful place to be because there's a way in which a person can feel wiser than ever more more comfortable with who they are than ever, you know, all of these beautiful things that come with time and life experience. Well, suddenly having a nervous system that can't tolerate anything, right, they're not sleeping well, or they're set off or feeling insecure in ways that are just different and quite unpleasant. So that all to say, I think regulation is the term and it makes sense, right? Because we are talking about the body's systems regulating themselves so that we can temperature regulate and our breath, our heart rate, our digestion, all of these things. I think another way to think about it is like homeostasis, right? We're wanting we're really wanting homeostasis. So when approaching nervous system work, in my opinion, as a non doctor, right, as a non physician, I'm most interested in can you be with yourself? Can you be with whatever is there before we run to change it? Before we even like hurry to settle an upset? Can we be with the upset can we see what it wants to tell us? See what it wants us to know. Or maybe it just wants to express, maybe you need to scream, maybe there's, maybe there is something in your life that's wanting to change, or maybe there's a body part trying to talk to you. So for me, whether we're doing money work, or photography, or other visibility work, that's a lot of what my focus is, when it comes to the nervous system. care that I will bring, I want you to feel Rene relationally, that we're connected enough that you can explore more of who you are. And will I give you tools? Because anxiety sucks? Right, and because being absolutely, you know, stuck and shut down and not able to move forward sucks? Will I give you tools? For sure. And also, particularly given like, depends on the container of the work, right? If I'm working with someone one on one, there's a lot more room to, for us to get specific about what's happening for you. Right, and for you to have the room to explore and decide, oh, yeah, what is this? And how do I want to be with it?
Alexandra Hughes 36:16
Yeah, you know, a lot of people there. They're like, a gazillion photographers out there. And it loads all these money programs out there. And I'm wondering why you chose to weave that in. And if in any way, it's related to your own reclamation story, I found that a lot of the time I weave things in once I find that they work for me. Yeah, they take me to a place of increased internal liberalisation. Right. So I wonder if you could share your story of reclamation if you're open to doing that here. Yeah, I know, it's an ongoing thing, like none of us are aware, we it'll we will, it's a lifelong journey, and maybe just share why. Everything you've just talked about is important for you.
Danielle Cohen 37:09
I mean, I, my story is developmentally, you know, I grew up in a way where, amongst other things, I was left with complex PTSD, that wasn't named until 2015. Up until then, it was anxiety attacks or things like that. And for years and years, it wasn't named or seen, in part, not unrelated to the way I grew up. In other words, some of the neglect of the early years continued and allowed a lot of things to go unseen. And the it wasn't quiet, right, the way that the way that those things expressed in me were not quiet, but they were isolating. And so my need to figure out how to be okay. was significant and started young. So things like I mentioned very early, I happen to have a health food store in my neighborhood. And I had, both of my parents were ill when I was kid, but kid, but my dad was really like kind of on death's door, always. And so I would sit in this herb store and read about the plants, particularly Hawthorne and Lobelia. I was convinced, you know, that could save him. And so that lit my initial fire. And in that, you know, you're reading, I was just reading things in a different kind of way. You know, the things that you read in a herb store in 1983, at 10 years old, kind of get your brain thinking in a certain kind of way. By the time I was about 15, I was working with a therapist who taught me tapping at the time it didn't have I don't remember it having a name. And it didn't care. I just knew that it was working. So I learned it really early. I started working with an energy healer I got in a car accident when I was 17 1718. And my boyfriend's mom at the time said you need to go see my chiropractor. And the chiropractor I went to was an energy worker, and it dramatically changed my physiology, my experiences with her and I said to her, I want to do what you do. I want to learn everything. And so I started working in her office, I became her nanny, she we were in California but she was also from Montreal and she was about 15 years older than I so there were these other like really lovely connections. And then and I remember her saying to me like don't go to chiropractic school. It's a waste. I mean, it's a beautiful profession, but she's like unless that's the thing you want to do. Just Do something that allows you to be with people and gives you what you need in terms of skill and license, not necessarily literal license, because that wasn't a thing at the time to have hands on people and be with them with their stuff. So I went into massage school. And so all of those things that I was always working in and with the body. Right, and I have a very sensitive system that has also had a lot of trauma. Do I you know, there's the intuition that comes from living in hyper vigilance. Right? The intuition that happens when we have been groomed is not necessarily the right word. But when we have been conditioned, trained, directly, or indirectly, by our circumstances, to notice the difference in the weight of a footstep, or a certain kind of way that someone in the house breathes. Right? This is, unfortunately, very common, right? There's so many of us that grew up in environments that required us to always be paying attention, and, or to tune into very specific subtleties, right? For some, it's to the smell of alcohol, and the breath, you know, as the warning sign, what not for me, we had, I had some, there were things with both of my parents, but also, we had a stalker for 11 years, my mom and I, so there were certain ways in which, you know, that shaped me, and made me both very sensitive, and highly intuitive. And I don't know which of those things came from those traumas. And I, and which I just came in with, right, and there is a difference, that can be a different and it may or may not matter. What I can tell you is that I Samantha sighs I feel things in my body. And, and so having tools for managing that has always been essential. Right, then I was a body worker, I became a doula and childbirth educator. So for me when we're doing anything, it, I can't really think of something where this wouldn't be true for me, because we are bringing our body to whatever we're doing. Right. So whether that's writing, or cooking, or a photo session, or money, or social media, right, our body is having an experience, we're not separate. And in the same way, I'm not somebody who works with Cymatics, and says, like, I want you to get out of your head and into your body, our head is part of our body. Right? We're these things are part of us. And so yeah, I would say for me, the bringing those pieces back to the work, like weaving the things that I have learned in the past and continue to learn because I find it also unendingly interesting, you know, how our bodies work, how the different systems, the different lenses, right? If we look at things through an attachment lens, which is where most of my more current, or at least, I would say, a big influence of my more current trainings, in terms of Cymatics come from is through an attachment lens. And that gets really interesting to me, in a lot of ways, especially because we can open it up to things like well, what is your how securely attached? Are you to the divine? And for example, where it is you're, I'm working on a workshop around, you know, what part of your attachment system shows up in your business, and in the different facets of your business? And I find it I just find it all really interesting. And hopefully,
Alexandra Hughes 44:00
yeah, I mean, I'm curious about what you have to say on like, bringing your body in front of the camera. And that word was visibility. I've often coupled which wound the word which wound and the word visibility, like a visibility, which wound together. And so I have my own like story, but I'm curious to hear for you, you know, what do you like? Why is it that people need visibility support when they're going to or women need visibility support when they're going to step in front of a camera? And why does Cymatics have to be a part of that? Or bodywork needs to be a part of that or consciously bringing your body in and working with your body in that arena and then in the money arena as well? You know, why is it that this is important? And I guess I'm kind of coming to this question leading a little bit to this question around like why now? Do you see kind of a reason that all of this is coming up? Now.
Danielle Cohen 45:06
So here's what I can say when I work with someone. And I feel like there's a change actually starting to happen. Or that maybe is maybe we're just always in change. But it does feel like there's a small, maybe it's big right now it feels like a small inflection point of sorts. When I first started photographing women for their work, it was a, an organic thing. It was, you know, there's a whole story there, that landed me in that situation. What I very quickly fell in love with and why it stuck, for me was this moment where I realized Holy shit, women are being photographed, for their work. And when I looked around at when else that was happening, it really wasn't right. Like, historically, women are photographed either in partnership, right in relationship to their mother, their mothering, right, as the mother of these children, or the spouse of this person. The other place that women are photographed is as a prop to sell somebody else's something. And good for you, for all the many women who have made incredible careers out of doing so no shade on any of that. I'm speaking to the more collective experience of like, what about a woman being photographed for her contribution in relationship to her contribution, as a messenger as a way of inviting people into her work as a way of like, you know, the, I'm here, I do a thing. And I want to tell you about it. That's pretty revolutionary, right. And, you know, you can couple that with like, and we're not even having to do the work in hiding. So there's that. And so much of that work is also women's work, which has been expected and required and done for free. So there's this way in which for me, it became like, this is meaningful to me, this isn't about me, and my art, which wasn't, hasn't been my approach. This is me witnessing, and documenting so that you can have these visual transmissions that invite people in. And so when somebody comes to work with me, for a brand photo session, typically there's a few things that happen. One is that I will let them know like, it's weird to be in front of the camera, it's uncomfortable. And I'm not going to rush to make you less uncomfortable. Because there will be something really beautiful that emerges in the humanity in the humaneness of that discomfort of that, you know, awkwardness. And at some point during the session, we also start talking about their work. And when we talk about our work, all self-consciousness goes away. It just does. And I say work, both the paid and unpaid side, right, like the just whatever that means to the work that you're here to do. Oftentimes in these contexts, it is a business, right? So when people are talking about being with their clients, or the thing that they're creating, they the self consciousness falls away, and it's so beautiful. And to me so liberating.
Alexandra Hughes 48:32
Yeah, I just asked the question. Oh, okay. But before I remind you of it, I just wanted to say, I know that feeling, because I support women with messaging. And sometimes in the way we initiate it is in what I call it in the flow interview, where we do exactly what you're talking about, we start talking about, you know, their mission, their sole mission and their business. And there's a point in time where they just kind of, there's just so much energy and enthusiasm, and they're just channeling it out. And it's, it's a really beautiful thing to witness. Yeah,
Danielle Cohen 49:09
yes. And I'm sure in hearing that, because this also happens in visibility work, where in when I'm just listening, I can then pull out the things that they're saying and reflect it back. And I'll you know, so often, though, you know, I'll hear a client say, oh, my god, that's amazing. Can I write that down? And I will tell you, right, and that's what we do. It makes sense. It's like trying to give directions to somebody all the time. Or for me, it's like trying to explain how I make stew. I don't know I do this, and I you know, it's like, there are certain things that we do. And yeah, so be in a space to be able to reflect it back to someone is so helpful for them. Yeah, I've had that as our business.
Alexandra Hughes 49:57
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? You know, it's a Almost as though it just comes out unconsciously, which is probably exactly what's happening. And they haven't heard it. And they're like, that's just brilliant. What you? Yeah. Well, that's great, because it's just from the transcript. The other part of the question was around money. Oh, my God, I mean,
Danielle Cohen 50:19
talk about something that creates body responses. Right. I think I was thinking about this recently, Kelly and I are we just Kelly deals and I who did good money, we just did another workshop around meeting this money moment, because boy, are we in a moment, right? It was really great. And we're, we've now let this work that we've done together evolve into something that's going to be coming out. And so I've been reflecting on all kinds of things. And one of the things I was thinking about is back in 2016 2017, I did a podcast interview around my money story at the time, which was within days of when I had gone to court for the back child support that was owed to me. And there's a whole story behind that I'm happy to share the podcast if that's useful to you. But in those moments, those more extreme money moments that I can hear in my voice. You know, if I listened to that podcast, if I call up the memory, there was so much in my happening in my body, right? It's about the money, but it's about so many other things. It's about our access to resources, it's about our ability to respond. When something goes sideways, somebody gets sick, somebody has a need, you know, it's a really loaded topic. And as entrepreneurs, especially, there's no guaranteed paycheck. Right? And so depending on your situation, and depending on your personal journey with money, and all kinds of things, you may be able to ride that no big deal. But for most people, it's loaded. It's loaded. And it's tricky. So just that tolerating the uncertainty, tolerating the risk taking that you need to do and tolerating the winds, right? Being able to have money come in and trust that, like, it's not a one shot deal, you'll be able to have it happen again, you don't have to just hold it so tightly, or like hurry up and spend it because that's you don't know what else to do. Right? Like, all there's just so many ways. And that's not even talking about pricing. So putting a price on our work, how do we do that? How do we do that in a way that's in alignment with our values that feels in right relationship with all the things of the world, especially if we hold an anti capitalist lens, you know, which can often get conflated with, I shouldn't make any money. Or if we have a healer wound, right of I'm doing something spiritual or healing, I shouldn't be charging. There's so many different ways that shows up and again, women's work. If you're in any way providing what would be considered women's work, and you're putting a price on it, there is some narrative in or around you, that tells you that's wrong. And that's not something we can just think our way out of.
Alexandra Hughes 53:49
It's a cognitive narrative. But it's it also, it's not just like it makes its way into our cells, somehow. Yeah, I mean, like I said, or it was born in our cells, right?
Danielle Cohen 54:02
And I actually can find, I find sensemaking settling. Right? Good money, for example, has a spreadsheet tool. I find that process personally very grounding. And when I go through the process, so in that part of the course, right, we go through the process of what do we need? What are our personal numbers that we actually need? Both in terms of dollars, but also time? What is our business need? Right? And we get very granular down to Okay, so if we take into account our personal needs, our business needs, how much time we have available, both in the weeks and also in the year. What our do we need to like, budget for values? Do we have any other big saving things we have to take care of taxes, whatnot? What do we actually have to be charging have to in order to sustain what we're doing now that is a really, to me very important practice to know that number and find a way to be okay with it. Even if you land on a number that you're like, This doesn't make sense, or I'm not in alignment with this number, I'm not willing to charge this because it's way, way too expensive. Or I'm already charging three times this, I don't want to lower my rate, like whatever is there, you now have a source of truth, it's actually telling you based on the math of your life, this is what is required. You can make decisions, you can bridge you can supplement or fortify in different ways you can get creative in all kinds of ways. It doesn't have to mean like, Oh, now I saw that number. So that's exactly what I'm going to charge. But it means that you now know what's true. Mm hmm. Math and point. And if you can meet that number, and pay attention to what happens in your body when you do, right, do you start to freak out? Do you just get suddenly tired? Do you want to just shut it down and slam the thing and walk away? Do you feel like you should just quit? This is never going to work? Right? We can't just think our way out of those moments. But if we can recognize, like, oh, yeah, you just want to quit, right? It feels like nothing's gonna work. Okay, let's just be with that for a moment. Just be with it. Let's even maybe grieve and how fucked up the systems are that make it this way, whatever, you know, whatever needs to happen. How can we make it sacred? How can we make this meaningful? And then we can come back and approach it with our brilliant creative minds. I'm hesitating, because, you know, there's all kinds of I'm saying minds, but you know, could be all kinds of ways. But once we can be with whatever shows up in the body, we can once again have access to like, okay, so what is the next right?
Alexandra Hughes 56:59
I think that the exercise for me, was incredibly powerful. Because so I'm in a, I'm in a heterosexual marriage. And my husband has been the main breadwinner, forever. Is it forever? No. Since I had my third, okay, and for me that exercise, not only did it put me in, like I have done exercises where I've come into relationship with money, but not there was something about it, that had me put a new hat on, and it was the provider hat. Mm hmm. You know, because it made me look at everything, and take responsibility as a provider, like with from that I was providing for myself.
Danielle Cohen 57:53
Yeah, you're providing what you're deciding you're providing for. Exactly,
Alexandra Hughes 57:57
exactly. And so there is a sense of ownership there. And so, which takes me back to that moment in time that you were talking about, you know, when you were going to court, right for what was due. And it made me think of that relationship between money and marriage, then, hmm. And like the narratives that we have around that, which is also linked into how women have always been photographed, as like in next to what they're in, or to show or to visualize what they're in relationship with, which is often, you know, demonstrating their role in the family, which traditionally hasn't been that of being a provider. Right. So there's just so much messy messiness in there. That I think when we just kind of do learn to, I guess, be in the messiness, see the messiness and bring it to consciousness and then be in it in our bodies and aware of what's going on in our minds. At that time, at that same time can just be so healing.
Danielle Cohen 59:13
Yeah, and it allows us to be present. And it's not always. It's yeah, I think in terms of the entrepreneurship, it's actually pretty inspiring. It's very grounding. You know, like, whether that is I'm hearing you say, like, you kind of went from wherever you were to this, like, I am in provider mode, like that is a, that's a pretty steady, you know, rooted position. I'm providing something that's a different that's a different orientation. There's a steadiness to that. Really useful while riding the waves. The entrepreneurial waves.
Alexandra Hughes 59:56
Absolutely, and they're wild waves. I'm just aware of the time I just looked at the clock. And I'm going to ask you one more question. How would you define magic? And how would you define your magic? So I've snuck two questions into one. Oh,
Danielle Cohen 1:00:11
how would I define magic? I would to in its most simple way. I think I would define magic in this moment as a collaboration with the unseen in service to something beautiful.
Alexandra Hughes 1:00:31
Oh, that's a really beautiful definition. And what's your magic?
Danielle Cohen 1:00:35
Well, I think in some ways, I am magic. By that definition. I am. A being of that exists because of collaboration with the divine in service to something beautiful. In terms of my magic, like as in what's my medicine? Yeah, I would say it is probably, again, to put it very simply, I see people. Yeah.
Alexandra Hughes 1:01:03
Wow, that's so perfect. Three words. Thank you so much, Daniel, for being on the podcast today. And for this really thought provoking heart awakening conversation. I really appreciate your time here today. And I know our listeners will too.
Danielle Cohen 1:01:23
Oh, I'm so glad. Thank you. It was so much fun and so good to get to know you and be with you. Yeah,
Alexandra Hughes 1:01:30
it was really lovely. Thank you beautiful for listening to the witch hunt podcast. We appreciate your presence and are so honored that you're here. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a review, subscribe and share it with your friends. One great way to share is by taking a screenshot of the podcast on your phone and posting it on your Instagram story. Please take us at the witch hunt podcast so that we can help share to spreading the word like this will help us to find more witches, and to wake more witches. Now you know what it's time to do? Dance it out to the groovy tunes of bass that I knew, which means I miss you in Spanish. It's by gamma skies. Till next time
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
